TrackChat

happy hannan · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:27 am Post subject:

you'd have to be happy with 86 posts about yourself, thats a fair effort

pjay · Little Athlete Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 2

Tom Rowe, boy that Rowe kid can run. Training had the top off, guns were huge. Probs win u20's Decathlong, watch out for him

Ron Burgundy · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:03 am Post subject:

Forget the Rowe's, jump on the Anaconda! He's revolutionised pre-training warm up these days and still killing it.

Fire up Walid...

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:

Go The Anaconda! Need a nickname for Rowey or is Rowey enough?

Also at school in Melbourne are

Johnny Rayner 153.31 1991,
Nathan Carr, 152.5 1989
Joel Smythe, 152.54 1990
Craig Huffer, 152.6 1989

James Kaan 150.33 1990, gregson 151.42 1990 and David Bradney 152.12 are all from NSW, plus Chris Stapleton 152.06 from SA.

With World Juniors qualifying at 150.00 and with all of these excellent athletes so close to it i'm very excited about this season. Good luck to all!

ps haha pjay are you forgetting about shauny? maybe silver for rowey.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject:

wednesday training involved

running technique as always
hurdle drills
some javelin
6x10m, 5x20m 3x30m maximal acceleration from crouch start
about 10x100m runs through the session

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject:

Thursday training at Olympic Park very windy.

5x300m/4min

40.8
39.5
38.8
38.9
41.8

average 39.9ish

in racing flats.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject:

rest day today and tomorrow is just warmup, massage and recovery in the pool.

Its been a big week

Sun - 3x5min @ AT
Mon - long continuous hills - total session 24 mins hills 40secs hard (Alex says this was his best session ever)
Tues- 400/300/200/100 pb session
wed- fast light stuff
thurs - 5x300/4 pb session
fri/sat - recover
sun - 10x200 off 90sec plus easy 20 min run

I have had to amend things slightly. Alex is on a 3 weekly cycle (heavy, heavy, light). The plan ends at APS as do the three weekly cycles. This puts the second last cycle ending Oct 6th and the final one on Oct 27th. State All Schools u17 is on Oct 13th/14th, normally at the end of the first heavy week. However, this close to a peak things are not normally very heavy so it would be fine except for another added complication. This is the fact that the real peak is Dec 6-10th*, and APS is just a small rise on the way to that. What this means is that he is maintaining some volume and base work whilst this slight sharpening is occurring.

The upshot of this is that he is now in a 10 day heavy cycle which began last Sunday and will then enter a 10 day light cycle ending Oct 13th for States. Then its basically two weeks of sharpening and race pace sessions till APS.

*Major peak is mid march, minor peak mid dec, unfortunate complication APS athletics.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:19 am Post subject:

change of plans. Alex feels recovered enough afer one day off so he did his 10x200m this morning on his own at St Kevs. Small problem was that the track has been scoured or maybe rescoriated haha who knows but something where they rip the ground up and add more dirt???

The session was off 90 seconds and was done alone. Very windy so every odd repetition was into the wind and every even one with it.

30.2 hw
28.1 tw
27.7 hw
27.3 tw
27.8 hw

27.9 tw
28.6 hw
27.9 tw
29.4 hw
27.3 tw

average 28.2. He was under instruction to move out to 2min recoveries iof he couldn't maintain under 28.

Can anyone give me some extra background on this particular session?

zoompedro · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject:

I think the track there is quite fast (or not entirely accurate) I did 15*200 there a couple of weeks ago with 200 jog recovery (approximately 90sec) and did them all in 27.xx which was the first track session i've done for the season.

Its hard to gauge form of 200s.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject:

yeah thats pretty specific ZoomZoom ta. I think it is quite fast, just a little less from the groundwork on wednesday possibly. Alex said it felt like spongy dirt underfoot. Nice to run on.

The track is actually 397m long. But there is a line 3m back from the finish in lane one to counter this over 400m.

Can i ask your pbs Zoomy, 15x200/200jrec in 27s seems fast. Like its 150 shape if theres enough speed.

And what do you mean its hard to gauge form of 200s?

zoompedro · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject:

yeah i was doing them from the line 3m back. I thought that was the case after the first one! Yeah there isn't a lot of grass so i guess it is quite fast

200s are very hard to tell what kind of shape you are in. You can hide a bit in them and they are short enough that if you are coming from a 400 background you can make it a better session than it is. 27's isn't that fast and its over before you know it. Also with that session you are getting 3:1 recovery. The good thing about 200s is you can do a lot of them at race pace which gets you used to running relaxed when fast.

I ran 1.50.8 last season

Flowlikewater · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:

gidday! I'm up to speed now. hope you're training well. Rowey really wants to do a few sessions with you. What you reckon?

I think 150.8 would be awesome for Alex to run this season. But you know he is consistent so he might get a scalp off you somewhere!

ciao

borzastoleitfromme · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:30 am Post subject:

Where is bufont, he loved 200's, he should be all over this. I think his fav session was 20x200, starting at 28/29 then working down to 42 in the last few.

10x200m 60sec is a better gauge for 800m (26.1 was my best average..with a standing start).

Flow, did those 300's the other day have a rollong start?
_________________
see, here you have to run as fast as you can only to stay in the same place:
if you want to move somewhere else you have to run twice fast as that .....

Flowlikewater · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject:

Borza

standing starts they were.

What 800m translation would that session be in your opinion?

Alex was doing the 200s off 60 but it has been changed to 90secs now simply so he can run them a little faster. Are there any problems with doing this?

borzastoleitfromme · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:18 am Post subject:

I think that if he can run the 10 with 60sec rest in 27.5 ave (standing start), you should be able to run under 1:51. It's a hard session with there is a large headwind on one side of the track, as it does mess with the times a little. Maybe just try work the rec down over the next few cycles..so this cysles you start with 90, then drop it by 10 sec each cycle.

Bufonts 200m sessions (previously posted);

10 x 200m, 2min recovery, jog back diagonal, avg. 24.2

25 x 200m (1 min cycle) stay under 29 sec and be relaxed. Quit when straining

20 x 200m (1.10 cycle) avg 27 low (last 4 reps under 26 sec) oft do this session easy for the first 10 (29 low) then step up each rep from there have run last rep in 24 low once. (i love this session)
_________________
see, here you have to run as fast as you can only to stay in the same place:
if you want to move somewhere else you have to run twice fast as that .....

Flowlikewater · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject:

Sunday training was a 15min run at threshold. It was run at the same intensity as his previous longer runs. HR at completion was 192bpm. He said he didn't feel any lactic yet at 192bpm i would have thought was accumulating some. This seems too high for a threshold run. It seems to be at about the level of his V02 max and is only about 10 beats below his max HR.

any thoughts?

ps Borza we have done a few sessions of 10x200/60secs and i have just shifted Alex out to 90 seconds for this session. I think he last did the 60 sec session in 28.8 at box Hill 5 weeks ago.

Ron Burgundy · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=6193197993&oid=6101206215

Flowlikewater · Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:21 am Post subject:

are you sure he's been training hard?

Alex today did 2x20min runs up and down the mountain and in between did 7x44-8sec hill sprints with a 3 min walkback. He is claiming deadness.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:11 am Post subject:

The deadness persists. The mountain running was very steep and run hard. Apparently the added feeling of muscle soreness was a new feeling when added to the aerobic fatigue. I think this stuff is more for preparation period. Now that it is started though i think we can continue it up to xmas. Just gotta find a good local mountain. Anyone?

Training today was 2x3x150on/50off in 22.5 pace on slow oval. Deliberately sub max. Was intended to be 20.5 pace.

What follows is an anlaysis of this u16 age group in the leadup to National All Schools. It starts with last years results.

National All Schools Sydney December 2006
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boys 800 Metres Under 15 Finals
Section 1: 1, Alex Rowe, VIC, 1:58.25. 2, James Connor, NSW, 1:59.37. 3,Hamish Wagner, QLD, 1:59.66. 4, Sam Martyn, NSW, 1:59.97. 5, Michael Todd,NSW, 2:02.56. 6, Anselm McManus, ACT, 2:05.31. 7, Kane Mentz, QLD, 2:05.50. 8,Dean Asonitis, NSW, 2:06.29.

Boys 1500 Metres Under 15
Section 1: 1, James Connor, NSW, 4:15.38. 2, Sam Martyn, NSW, 4:15.47. 3,Dean Asonitis, NSW, 4:16.80. 4, Michael Todd, NSW, 4:17.98. 5, Joshua Johnson,NSW, 4:24.59. 6, Phillip McConnon, TAS, 4:24.83. 7, Jordan Cross, QLD,4:31.05. 8, Matt Axford, SA, 4:34.66. 9, Ethan Heywood, WA, 4:38.20. 10,Jordan Nelson, VIC, 4:38.54. 11, Andy Axford, SA, 4:43.03.

Boys 3000 Metres Under 15
Section 1: 1, Joshua Johnson, NSW, 9:16.51. 2, Kane Grimster, VIC, 9:20.62.3, Ryan Geard, VIC, 9:22.67. 4, Lachlan Rayner, VIC, 9:37.97. 5, Dylan Dudley,NSW, 9:43.52. 6, Jeremy Lim, QLD, 9:47.83. 7, Ethan Heywood, WA, 9:49.41. 8,Jordan Nelson, VIC, 9:59.54. 9, Matt Axford, SA, 10:07.45. 10, Liam Moore,QLD, 10:13.87. 11, Andy Axford, SA, 10:14.20.
=======================================================================
National Cross Country Perth September 2007

Boys 4k CC 14/15 Years
1 Joshua Johnson NSW 12:48 1
2 Sam Martyn NSW 12:49 2
3 James Connor NSW 12:51 3
4 Michael Todd NSW AC X12:54
5 Corey Biczo NSW 12:56 4
6 Lachlan Rayner VIC AC X13:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Josh Johnson the longer man who apparently rarely loses races.
Mark Bannon the freak who doesn't train.
Michael Todd who knocked 10 seconds off the above 1500m time last season.
James Connor the 800/1500 guy.
Alex Rowe the 400/800 guy.

These are all NSW guys except Rowe. Add in Sam Martyn silver in 8/15 in the above results and second to Johnson in the Nat XC and its a bit overwhelming from north of the Murray.

From the 3000m above some updated info on the Victorians.

Kane Grimster from Vic trains with Mitch Frey and recently ran 415 on his own. He is in the agegroup above for XC and interclub athletics. Ryan Geard only lost to Rowe in state XC in the final sprint. Lachlan Rayner beat Geard in the national XC and his brother Johnny ran 153.31 last season as an u16.

I reckon this is a cracker agegroup.

Freddy · Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:19 am Post subject:

and Philip McConnon - funny man

Brenno · State All Schools champion Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 34

Looks to be a good age group. Sadly by the time they are 21, 85% will be lost to the sport completely if recent history repeats itself. And criminally no one from any of the sports governing bodies will do anything to understand why they drop out or really do anything to try to keep them in the sport.

Its almost falling to you as his coach (and the other coaches) to keep the participation of the other talented kids up so as Alex (and others) have enough opponents to really push themselves just to achieve in Australia for their own long term success. I’m sure you know that of course as it is intuitive that better competition = better performance (your posts have highlighted it) but the reality is as a coach you have enough on your plate just training your own athletes without worrying about stopping other athletes dropping out!

Not an easy issue to resolve but just another of the many the sport seems to not be able to deal with Smile

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:07 am Post subject:

I agree with this Brenno. What to do is the eternal question many people have asked.

I became aware of the organisational side of the sport at 19 or 20 when studying Phys. Ed. at uni. My coach being a Soviet bred coach always had his opinions about what would work better. He was never actually critical i must say.

I, however, did grow to become critical which was a bit silly. It didn't really help solve any problems. I should have kept a more open mind back then. Anyway, as the years have gone by nothing much changed, except the surface, teh presentation. I have to remember the sport had very little funding for a long time. Sydney changed this and now AA and AV have plenty of money to develop things.

So for the last few years there have been significant changes. The 'face of athletics' is more visible and of better quality. There are far more camps and development programs now. One new program i recently became aware of is a $10 million grant from the Federal Government which AA is to use for what is called 'transition' pathways. Basically creating a network between Little Athletics clubs and primary schools as i understand it.

Over the last 6 months i have come into contact with AA again for the first time since i was an athlete. This was due to coaching a young decathlete by the name of Daniel Bayley to representation at the World Youths. I guess i noticed two main things. The first was the very human way the selectors and team management dealt with myself and Dan's family. Very different from 10-20 years ago. The second was the high level of communication between these people and us. Peter Hannan did an excellent job of interacting with us throughout the entire process. I must also give a lot of kudos to Head Selector Peter Fitzgerald. I had heard he was a good guy and it was proven very true.

Now i don't know whether any of this is going to make a difference to performances. I agree with you again here Brenno. It is up to the coaches to find athletes, recruit them and develop them. If i can keep this process of identification of talent, recruitment and development, then further ahead in time i have a group of senior athletes who are by then in the management phase of their careers. This enables me to continue to have some focus on new juniors. My coach Efim says this is the only sure way. I trust him in this enough to try it out for a number of years. It has been 4 serious ones now.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:17 am Post subject:

Alex did light training again tonight, however, the deadness wasn't mentioned and he did 3x10, 3x20m and 3x30m plus a number of runthroughs and a couple of attempted long jumps.

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:18 am Post subject:

elsewhere a guy called Marto alerted me to Harry Wilson who won the u14 800m in 2005. So here is some more research.

2005 National All Schools December 2005

Boys 800 metre Under 14
1, Harry Wilson, Qld Mountain, 2:05.01. 2, James Connor, Nsw John The, 2:05.51. 3, Michael Todd, Nsw The King, 2:07.01. 4, Sam Martyn, Nsw Lumen Ch, 2:08.37. 5, Dean Searles, Qld Barcaldine, 2:10.04. 6, Dean Asonitis, Nsw Rooty Hi, 2:12.91. 7, Jordan Cross, Qld Benowa S H, 2:15.70. 8, Anselm McManus, Act Marist C, 2:15.81.

Boys 1500 metre Under 14
1, Michael Todd, Nsw The King, 4:18.53. 2, James Connor, Nsw John The, 4:18.82. 3, Harry Wilson, Qld Mountain, 4:20.59. 4, Sam Martyn, Nsw Lumen Ch, 4:21.46. 5, Ryan Geard, Vic Westbour, 4:26.13. 6, Keith Gregson, Nsw Northhol, 4:27.85. 7, Aaron Bernard, Qld St Colum, 4:29.31. 8, Jeremy Lim, Qld Nudgee C, 4:29.88. 9, Dean Asonitis, Nsw Rooty Hi, 4:33.14. 10, Jye Thomas, Qld A B Pat, 4:39.19. 11, Anselm McManus, Act Marist C, 4:41.54. 12, Matt Axford, SA Heathfiel, 4:44.80. 13, Lachlan Rayner, Vic St Berna, 4:47.70.

It shows the same guys basically. Wilson wasn't present as you said and Rowe wasn't into it yet. Todd won the 1500m and i'm wondering if he wasn't at his best last year in December. I couldn't find the 3000m so no idea about Johnson. Wagner bronze in the 800m also very fast at 52.38 in the heats at NatAS, fading in the final to 52.75. Not sure if this was before or after the 800m.

Another 800m guy from Melbourne is Knight. He ran 159 last year in October and didn't continue. He is in excellent shape at the moment and was clocked at a 51 flat relay split recently.

I saw these the other day:

Men 800 Metre Run 15 years
=======================================================================
Meet Record: M 2:06.65 25/09/2004 Garth Small, NT
=======================================================================
1 Dean Searles BAR 2:02.62H
2 Grant Dilger TNS 2:11.12

Men 400 Metre Sprint 15 years
=======================================================================
Meet Record: M 54.52 5/10/2002 Matthew Wills, LGR
=======================================================================
Section 1
1 Dean Searles BAR 52.74M
2 James Male TNS 54.05M

and looked up this to see Searles 4th ahead of Wagner

Boys 400 Metres Under 15 Finals
Section 1: 1, Nick Shaw, WA, 51.66. 2, Rory Nolan, VIC, 51.82. 3, Josip
Jadric, ACT, 51.96. 4, Dean Searles, QLD, 52.45. 5, Hamish Wagner, QLD, 52.75. 6, Steven Pallotta, SA, 52.77. 7, Taylor Mills, VIC, 52.95. 8, Matthew Bailey, QLD, 53.17.

Furthermore at the recent meet (ANQ champs) he also ran 11.76 +0.5 3f, and threw the discus 45m to win.

Does anyone know more about Dean?

the3rd200 · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:17 am Post subject:

wagner is a beast of a kid, ran 1 58.5 couple of weekends again to run second a pre gps meet.
Not sure how much more improvement he has in him, as is the question with all young kids who are as big he is at a very young age. Not sure how hard he has trained prior to this so we will see!
_________________
Texas A&M aggies 07

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject:

Thursday training.

100,200,300,400,500 off 4 minutes.

The intention was to run every 100m of every rep at 13.5 seconds.
therefore 13.5, 27.0, 40.5, 54.0, 67.5.

Probably due to the track surface at St Kevin's at the moment he fell short of the targets. Estimates put it at -2 seconds for 400m at the moment.

13.1, 26.2, 41.4, 57.4, 73.6.

The pain and torture began 150 from the finish in the 400 rep. The 500m was torture.

I'm a little thrown by this as i thought he could average this pace throughout the session. The slowness of the surface may be playing a role or maybe i've overestimated things here. Does anyone have experience with a similar session.

At the moment Alex is at 11.5 for 100m. low 23s for 200m, 50 flat for 400m, 155 for 800m, 2.35(comfortable) for 1000m and 405 for 1500m

So over 100m average 100 is 11.5
200m say 11.7
400m 12.5
800m 14.375
1000m 15.5
1500m 16.3

based on this analysis i think we are looking at this:

11.2, 11.4, 12.2, 13.5, 14, 15.5

which would give times of 11.2. 22.8. 48.8, 148, 220, 352.5

I think with this type of view any adjustment of the basic maximal speed of the athlete will allow them to 'cruise' at a higher speed than before. Therefore any adjustment to the basic 100/200 time will be multiplied as you go out distance. This assumes the aerobic capacity is at a level of development that doesn't act to retard this effect.

Any see any flaws?

K Mac · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject:

Flowlikewater · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject:

Monash University are about to undertake a study in conjunction with AA to examine the drop out rate from junior to senior athletics. It is one of many area's Monash Sport will be working together with AA to help improve the state of athletics from elite right through to recreational athletes.

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